The Kohl's Cash Glow-Up | Tara Fung, Co:Create

[00:00] When I was listening back to the podcast, I was editing it for the first, like for one of the first times. I was like, this is a podcast. Like we have like a real podcast. Hello, I'm Natasha Hoskins. I'm Dina Burke. And this is Boys Club. Wait, is it just Boys Club? It's just Boys Club. The Boys Club podcast? No, just Boys Club. [00:19] Hey. [00:20] How's it going? It's going good. What's Boys Club? What's Boys Club? [00:26] Dina, what's Boys Club? Boys Club is a community of people who are interested in technology and the future and a new internet and bringing new voices into the new internet. Preach. [00:42] Yes and amen. Yes and amen. Okay. So to be a part of Boys Club, you can become a member by applying on our website, boysclub.vip. We have newsletters, we have podcasts, we have events. We have [00:55] We're going to dive right in, though. [00:57] Because we had a very exciting guest on for Founders Feelings and Tara Fung. [01:02] who is the co-creator and... [01:05] Of CoCreate. She's the co-founder and CEO of CoCreate. Yes. And, you know, tell me about this interview. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had a good time with Tara. She is... [01:21] So she's a first-time founder, and yet... [01:26] She is... [01:28] just deeply credible, really...

[01:32] knows her stuff inside and out. She is such a machine, which is the highest compliment anybody could ever get from me. She is so talented, very smart, and I genuinely believe in what she's building. So we talk a lot about loyalty and rewards as co-create is like a platform to, for people to be able to reward their community. She has a really pragmatic, [01:54] view of how Web3 can... [01:59] be like benefit a consumer that doesn't care about Web3. [02:04] And I think that that is really refreshing. [02:07] I think that's, yeah, I think that's why I'm so excited about what she's building because like... [02:11] We talk about this all the time, but I'm interested in Web3 for what it does for real people in the real world. And her product is such a clear example of providing value to people who... [02:23] through things that they actually care about with this like, [02:27] layer of Web3 that like probably most people won't even interact with as something that is like crypto. Yeah. And so that's really exciting to me. We're doing some really fun stuff with CoCreate coming at the end of March. It's a little program that we're going to call Dimes. [02:45] You heard it here first. More to come. [02:48] We're not going to say too much here because we've got a lot of things we're pushing out over the next few months. [02:55] Keep an eye out. [02:56] And if you want to be the first to know what is going on with dimes,

[03:02] You know what you should do? What should you do, Dina? You should go to boysclub.vip, scroll to the bottom of the page, find the little tiny link that says join, fill out an application, and you will... [03:13] hopefully be invited to join our discord where you'll find out about it first. So that's Tara. That's co-create. That's our show. [03:27] On today's show, we have Tara Fung, who is the co-founder and CEO of CoCreate, where she is working to revolutionize brand loyalty programs and unlock the power of community for brands. Previously, she was the CRO at Alto, a leading crypto IRA and digital asset IRA custodian. I have no idea what those things are, but sounds very fancy. And was CCO at a consumer lending fintech firm. She's also an HBS alum. Okay. Major flex. No big deal. Welcome to the show, Tara. [03:57] Thank you so much. We're really excited to have you. So we're having you on... [04:04] We're doing founder feelings with you. Yes. So we're going to open up. I will say that – so Natasha and I both know Tara. [04:14] Uh-huh. You. [04:16] You aren't the most emotional person. And so we're particularly excited for this conversation. That's a really generous way of saying it. I love that. That's how y'all describe me. That makes me so happy, actually. That's hilarious. No, every time I'm like, wow, this is the most buttoned up person I've ever met. But you're so kind and nice. So it's not like a bad thing. I was just like, wow.

[04:37] I wonder what's going on underneath the surface. I mean, it's a total farce. My husband calls me his little volcano. So I'm like... Oh, what? [04:46] The emotional rollercoaster is happening. It's just, it is couched in like some Southern warmth that doesn't allow it to come through all the time. Great, great, great, great. You're a measured person and you come across as like... [04:58] You [04:59] don't seem to let things rattle you. And maybe they are rattled, but you don't show it. And it's no, I appreciate that. I think I learned early on, actually, because I worked for a [05:11] a German automotive company coming right out of undergrad. And Germans are not known as the most emotional people one. And the automotive industry is also very male dominated. And so I think I subconsciously taught myself not to have inflection in my voice sometimes when I was speaking and I wanted to be taken seriously. And it kind of just permeated as like almost like emotion makes you feel weak when you're or be perceived as weak. And I even got told once that I laughed too much to be [05:41] seriously by a senior exec there. So there's probably some like trauma stuff that I need to work out with my therapist. But overall, I really appreciate the, hey, I come across as having my stuff together. That's what I'm taking away from this. [05:54] Okay, co-create. Co-create. Is that what we're here to talk about? So how did it come about? When? How did it happen? And why did you decide that was the thing that you wanted to leave your very...

[06:07] good, cozy jobs to do. [06:09] *takes a little bit* [06:10] So I've never been the type of person who was like, I was six years old when I started my first company to make money by selling X, Y, or Z. Like it was never about that for me. And business for me has always been a source of exploration. [06:26] and [06:28] I was at Alto IRA, where we enabled folks to use retirement funds to invest in alternative assets. And one of the alternative asset classes was crypto. I don't invest in things I don't understand. And I wasn't about to tell people, hey, you can use your retirement account to invest into crypto without understanding it. And so I was like, okay, I finally have to go deep down this well. [06:49] And I started going down the rabbit hole and it quickly morphed from me to, holy smokes, blockchain tech is actually a superior technology for certain use cases. And this is the next frontier. And I want to be building on the next frontier. I want to use my time to explore this and not my time after work, but actually my work, because my work makes up so much of my life and my identity. And so about a year and a half ago, [07:15] I put out into the world. [07:18] hey, the next thing I do is going to be founding a company in the Web3 space. And I just tried to manifest that destiny. And I talked to a lot of people. I considered a lot of ideas, felt a little bit like Goldilocks, like this is too small. This is too big. This one's not quite right. Because I've been in a failed startup before. And I knew if I do this and it fails, which is the most likely outcome for most startups, I want to feel good about having had spent that time

[07:48] I came across this concept. It was an early protocol design that an advisor to CoCreate was working on. And he sent me an early draft of the white paper and we just started working on it together and iterating on it. And I was like, this is it. [08:01] This feels like the thing that is important, that matters, that I will learn so much that I will be able to explore the world doing. And so that's like the story of how it came about. It was actually a really fast process. It was such a whirlwind process. [08:15] I, um... [08:16] met the advisor who was working on this concept the first week [08:23] of february and i presented to the partnership at a16z crypto on february 28th that had a term same that is insane [08:34] Yeah. I almost had, speaking of how calm, cool, and collected I am, I almost had a nervous breakdown the weekend. It was a Monday that I was presenting and I literally went to my husband and I was like, babe, it was my first pitch meeting for this concept. Ben Horowitz and Chris Dixon were in the call that I was going to be on. It was 16 people. [08:52] Yeah. Talk about it. And Ben, like I got on Zoom. And I don't know who's going to show up. All I know is that it's Chris Dixon and the A16Z partnership. And it's my first pitch meeting for this concept that I'm super excited about, but that is very early stage. And I get on the Zoom and there's like 16 people and they're going around. And Ben Horowitz is like, hi, Tara. I'm Ben. I'm like, yeah, no shit. You're Ben. Everyone knows you're Ben.

[09:22] Like are you like sweaty? Like are you like heart pounding? Like are you like I'm in the zone. And once I'm in it, I'm in it. And like I'm good. [09:30] Yeah, you'll love this, Dina. I power posed before. Nice, nice, nice. But I mean, I will say, so over the weekend... [09:38] Because I hadn't actually, in my background, you know, I started out doing strategic projects and consulting. And a lot of the roles where it was like, hey, you're quote unquote a smart person. Like, let's just put you in roles that make you analyze things and think about them. But that you're actually not responsible for any outcomes. And then after business school, I went into, believe it or not, sales. And so like full cycle sales. I believe it. I can do that. I can see you being like a killer. Yeah. [10:06] Yeah, just... [10:07] It was the most intimidating thing because I was like, I can't hide behind the fact that I can come across as sounding smart. It was like, you get a number and your number's on the board and it's on the board alongside everyone else's. And you're basically getting graded in front of everyone else. But that was like the most invigorating thing for me. And I did, I killed it. And so like sales became the thing that I felt really confident and comfortable with being able to connect with people, come across as having credibility. [10:37] Martin's quote unquote like rose like I was good and the meeting went incredibly well and Chris Dixon sent me a text afterwards and he was like that was great went so well if this was 15 minutes after and he was like we're in. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah.

[10:53] That's like what they tell you not to do is to have your most important meeting as the first meeting that you're taking to like on a roadshow. It's not advisable. It's incredible. It's incredible. Was your advisor in that pitch meeting or were you riding solo? [11:07] He was, but he was there as an attendee, not as a presenter. [11:12] Wow. Okay. And so like... [11:14] even on the technical questions, because the thing was, I wanted to present this as like, hey, yeah, this concept, I, it started with the advisor, but I'm responsible for it from here on out. If you're investing in this and you're investing in me and this concept is going to evolve and it has evolved. And so you need to trust that I am the person to lead this. [11:33] And so it was really important to me that I be prepared for it and that I can be able to answer all the technical questions because on day-to-day operations, that's what I have to be able to do or bring in the right people who can do that. [11:44] Yeah. Um, wow. It's so, it's so interesting to sort of hear your background and then, and, [11:50] here where you are now. So like you really were your career is like you're really an operator of a business like you you speak about sales and things like that. But then moving into like founder and founders are operators to especially early stage. But I'm curious, like what that transition looked like for you over the past year of like [12:08] okay, I'm moving into this role of guiding a ship and not just having, you know, a founder or CEO or whatever help sort of navigate where my scope and function of the business is and what that transition looked like. [12:18] - Yeah, it was. [12:20] I remember last February, March, April, so the first few months,

[12:25] felt like years because as we get older, what we do is we do more of the same thing and we're just expected to do it better. [12:34] And so there's less breadth [12:36] in what we do. And I had an area of specialization and I was doing more and more and more of it. And I got really, really good at it. But then as a founder, it's like, you have to do all the things or you have to figure out how they're done. And so what was so great about it, because for me, this is all about [12:51] I just enjoy exploring and learning, and I learn by doing, is I had to do net new things every single day, but sometimes I would suck at them. And I really don't enjoy being bad at things. Like I was, unsurprisingly, the A plus student, right? Like I always wanted an A, I always wanted to be the best and be able to shine at something. And you don't as a founder. As a [13:14] fail. And so that was... [13:16] That was a hard transition as it just felt like [13:20] I was doing things that I wasn't excelling at constantly. And then the other thing that I think was... [13:48] so much in the world of Web3 and crypto changed. And so the foundation was constantly moving underneath our feet. And I felt like it was my job...

[13:58] to say to the team, "We're on this expedition together, and this way is north." [14:03] And it was my job to say, okay, here's north. Let's start trekking. And there were so many times when I didn't feel like I knew which way was north. And I felt like I was failing as a leader and that I was looking around and being like, does anyone have a fucking compass? Because I don't know right now. And so I actually, I work with an exec coach. It's really like more of a work therapist. And one of the things she said to me, she's like, why do you feel like it's your job to know what the future holds all the time? [14:33] If you think about it, in a lot of ways, you need to be using this time. And the reason that investors have given you money is to validate hypotheses, because this is a very early stage company. [14:44] And so you need to be comfortable in that ambiguity and you need to be able to make your other team members comfortable with it as well. [14:53] And that's one of the things that I've always loved about y'all's podcasts, total fangirl here, is that like you start out by saying like who you are as a company every time. And the fact is, it is evolving. [15:04] And that's totally natural. And I think every early stage founder knows that. But it's also something that is inherently very uncomfortable for most people. And you've got to be okay with that. And that took me a while. [15:15] Are you okay with it now? Well, now I know which way is north, so now I'm good. Yeah, let's talk about north. What is the North Star? I know there's been an evolution of where you were and what it is now. Where are we?

[15:29] Yeah, so there's such a through line in where we started and where we are now. And so I'll start with that because I think it'll get to where we are now in a way that makes sense. But what we noticed early on last year, and really at the end of 2021 as well, is that there are all of these Web3 Native organizations that have done an incredible job of creating these tight, exclusive [15:59] the affinity that they have for that entity, for that organization, for that brand is higher than you see anywhere else because they aren't just consumers. They actually do see themselves as owners, as community members, as advocates, as evangelists. But that most of these Web3 Native groups [16:17] They've struggled to scale because many of them were actually capped by the thing that created that membership, right? 10,000 NFTs that inherently caps how many people can be part of it. And so what we started out to do is say, hey, how can we help these nascent brands in media, entertainment, fashion, other forms of IP, sports, gaming? How can we help them scale without losing the thing that made them so special and unique and without diluting their existing members? [16:47] a fancy way of saying a token that is available to more people because it's divisible and summable as opposed to fixed, scarce, and not meant to be divisible. And can we add this as a really incentive and healthy mechanism to grow the community without diluting it? And a lot of things in the world changed last year. You know, the idea of launching a freely tradable fungible token.

[17:11] is not something that hardly anyone would advise, given how Gary Gensler and the SEC are taking a stand on fungible tokens are really equity instruments in their mind or securities. Right. [17:21] And also, you know, there's so much speculation that comes and can be harmful to a community early on if they have this mechanism where people are just betting as opposed to actually engaging and contributing. And so what we've done in our evolution ourselves is we looked at a lot of the technology that we built because we write all of our own smart contracts. [17:43] And we said, you know what this is? Actually, this is really a Web3 loyalty program where we can enable these irreverent cult brands, whether they're Web3 orgs or whether they're existing brands that may have dabbled in Web3 but don't consider themselves as a Web3 company, to... [18:03] We can enable them to grow, engage, and reward their audience and turn them from customer to community using the tools of Web3 that have worked. But it means that they actually have to give up a degree of ownership because ownership is what makes someone loyal. It's not captivity. And so many of the loyalty programs that we know today, really, they're just not. [18:26] retention marketing programs where the brand's like, please come back and buy something else from me for 20% off. And that doesn't make anyone loyal. And it also doesn't get anyone excited. And so that's my, I guess, journey or vision board way of saying we're helping these irreverent cult brands, um, um,

[18:45] unlock the power of community using the tools of Web3. And we think that this will be what the evolution of loyalty programs looks like in the future. [18:54] I want to talk about sort of what I think your superpower is in a second around this because I think it's interesting hearing your how you got to where you guys are because I think it comes back to that. But I'd love to touch more on like the evolution of loyalty and the. [19:11] Why Web 2, and you spoke a little bit about this, but like why Web 2 loyalty is broken and what you think Web 3 enables to make it something better for consumers, better for brands. So could you talk a little bit about that? And also like if it isn't WEN token, which I agree, it should not be WEN token. I think that infuses a financialization into early or small communities that does that. [19:36] disrupts it in all sorts of weird and odd ways um [19:39] But if it's not that, like, yeah, what's the tool set? [19:43] Yeah, so I think... [19:46] Web2 loyalty programs are broken because loyalty is a total misnomer. Like it's a euphemistic term of what they want it to do, but really what they are, these, as I mentioned, like retention marketing programs of, okay, you bought something from us before. We want you to come back and buy something from us again. And so we're going to give you points that you can only use with us, that you can't transfer to anyone else, that you can't use outside of our ecosystem. And we're going to think that by making you captive to us and feeling like you earned

[20:16] here, maybe you'll come back. Right? Like, that's terrible. Like, who wants to be excited? And it's not exciting, too. And so when we look at what blockchains make possible, blockchains make possible... [20:29] a world where brands and anyone can make larger commitments that they can't walk back from. And so people don't have to trust in this other person or intermediary or entity. They can actually see and validate things for themselves. And it also enables this interoperability and composability that is otherwise really hard in Web2 because you're posting data to a public blockchain [20:59] cited about where Web2 fails is Web2 fails in actual value and utility for individuals. It fails in terms of actual brand impact for companies. And so we think that Web3 can solve those things because we can enable brands to partner together in a moment where, say, Supreme and Atari want to say, we each have our own Web3 loyalty and rewards program, and we're going to allow our [21:29] tokens to be used at the other brand because we know that our users care about both brands. And for each of us, it results in acquisition as well as increasing the lifetime value of our own customer base that has become a community and people get excited about it. And the reason that you can do this with a blockchain is because unlike blockchain,

[21:51] You know, maybe Delta and Lyft, they partner together with their loyalty program, where if you ride Lyft, you can get Delta points. [21:58] I bet that took six to 12 months for them to build out. They had to build a proprietary API between two separate data systems just to be able to share state and say who did what and who should be rewarded for what. Versus using a blockchain where you can say, actually, I can update where my token can be used, what it can be used for in a moment. [22:28] And these are all just examples. We're not actually doing anything between Atari and Supreme. And then... [22:34] For the consumer, it makes it so that, hey, these are actually mine. Like these loyalty points, these collectibles, these status, like I think all of these, we'll see all of these represented in this next evolution of Web3-based loyalty programs. Where your points are tokens on a blockchain, but they're restricted to certain uses so that they can't have a price, they can't be bought and sold, they can't be deemed as securities. And that's going to drastically lower risk for brands, but it's still going to open up cross-brand composability. [23:04] probably also have status, semi-fungible tokens, silver, gold, et cetera, being able to highlight who has been most valuable within that ecosystem to recognize those contributions, to have those be freely tradable. What if you worked so hard, you became silver on Delta, and you say, you know what? I moved. I moved.

[23:24] And I no longer am at a Delta hub. And like, I'm speaking for myself. I live in Nashville now. Nashville does not have direct Delta flights to a lot of places. Well, it doesn't have direct flights to many places at all, but it definitely doesn't have direct Delta flights. Like, I'd like to be able to say, you know what, this doesn't work for anymore, but work for me anymore. [23:43] But I earned it. And so I'm going to sell my status because it's mine, right? Like if I otherwise want to exit a program, I have to leave everything there and say, you know what, I just give it up. And so those are some of the things that I'm excited about and why I think Web3 creates more value for both brands and their audiences. That just isn't possible or easily possible with Web2. Yeah. [24:07] Hmm. [24:08] I mean, as someone who got... [24:11] silver status on Delta this year and have it's transformed my life. I'm like, Oh, I understand. I understand loyalty programs. I think for the first time in my life where I'm like, this is revolutionary and I'm obsessed. Um, and now like really working for gold, like I'm just like, no, it's like a goal, but, um, I totally see, I see the value in them and I see the pain points on the other side of like, I switched because of now I'm in this Delta world from Chase Sapphire [24:41] And then Chase, and I'm like, I'm not like a points person, but I- [24:45] I love to travel and I use my points all the time on travel stuff. And so I'm locked. Chase, we like canceled our Chase Sapphire and they're like, well, you need to spend your points by the end of the month. And I was like, what? I'm like, I've earned it. Like, I spent all this money to get all these points. And so anyway, the pain points that you're identifying on the consumer side.

[25:03] I feel very like legitimate in my life right now. [25:06] And then I think a question I have for you on the brand side is like, okay, what, [25:10] the main selling point for, let's say... [25:14] like it's Glossier and it's Aloe or something and those are the two that you can you know or some of the partnerships that you can do. Is the idea for brands that like [25:25] You are baking in... [25:29] a deeper sense of loyalty because you're providing more value across all these brands that like, [25:35] that Glossier would never... [25:37] do workout clothes or something like that. So for them, they're like, okay, this totally makes sense. But are those things... [25:43] those type of partnerships, something that those brands will need to opt into, I guess, is a question as well. I also think like related to that is I'm Glossier. I'm like, I have my own loyalty program. The consumer side, fully get, fully shocking. But on the brand side, I'm like, I have my own loyalty program or whatever. And... [26:01] I am in control of that data and I can see it all. [26:06] So why would I... [26:09] Give that up. [26:11] Yeah. [26:12] this style of program. [26:14] So I think you're right. A lot of brands are going to be like, I would prefer to play in my own walled garden where I control everything and where I can say, you know what, if you want to leave, fine, but you're going to leave everything behind. And I think that there's going to be a lot of brands for whom that's the case. And that's why we're so specific around who we want to partner with is like these irreverent cult brands.

[26:36] These types of brands, the ones that we're speaking with, they're like, actually, I know I need to differentiate myself. I have to stand out. I can't use the same tactics as everyone else. And by the way, I know it's really good business to serve my audience really well, because then not only do they buy from me, they also talk about me. They bring people to me. They want to associate themselves, their own identity with me. [27:06] for you at no cost. And that's [27:09] that doesn't come from a prison-like loyalty or captivity program, right? And so in the case of, you know, going with the Glossier example... [27:19] I think what could get Glossier and so many brands excited, even if they're like, hey, but I still like control, is if you look at how most direct-to-consumer brands acquire customers is through Facebook and Google Ads. And everyone's bidding on the same AdWords. It's incredibly expensive. And they would be better suited if instead of having to go through large intermediaries like Google and Facebook, they could say, you know what? I'm going to find other brands that serve the same demographic that are non-competitive. [27:49] get my audience excited, but it's going to introduce me to their audience and we can cross pollinate in a way that's value additive for the consumer and for us. And so like, I always use the example of, I would love for Glossier, Lululemon and Soho House to partner up where I could earn their loyalty tokens and use them across those brands for redemptions. And I would buy more from all of them if they would do that. And I think that that's going to be the thing that we need

[28:19] with use cases over time and actually have these studies to show the data. And we're so early in bringing loyalty programs on chain that we don't have, like no one has that yet. But I do think that that's where this goes. And that's why I actually prefer the wording of we're helping unlock the power of community, as opposed to we're trying to tokenize loyalty and rewards, [28:49] because it's about acquisition and engagement, not just retention. [28:54] you [28:56] So I'm curious in your conversations with brands, like there's a lot of headwinds right now around like crypto and Web3 to a certain extent. And I like, are you getting resistance on... [29:10] the idea of tokenization like full stop, are you able to like, are, are, [29:16] Is that a stopper for you right now? Yeah, it's not actually, but it's because of our approach. So, you know, this time last year, we were pure play protocol. Like we were writing smart contracts and we're like, hey, what free developers, you want to use them? We're open sourcing the code and you can come and build on top of it. There's a very small audience for whom that's relevant. And what we noticed is as we started honing in on, well, actually there's [29:40] there's something here related to brands and being able to grow, reward, and engage their audience and turn them into an active and engaged community. And those brands were like, well, I'm concerned about the risk. I'm concerned about the tech. I don't understand it. I'm concerned about fraud, about legal, about compliance. I'm concerned about user experience. Like my people, not all of them, or very few of them have wallets. And so we were like, okay, so that means we've got

[30:10] be the base layer. We need to build this API middleware that's Web2 tech so that any developer, not just Web3 native developers, can interact with what we're building. And we need to build the front-end experience that actually onboards individuals with an email, but not in a way that gives up what makes this so important, which is ownership. And so we actually have an onboarding mechanism where we spin up a non-custodial wallet for an individual with an email where we are not [30:40] the private keys and they are actually getting tokens in their wallet for many, which is the first time. And they can transfer those assets to another non-custodial wallet in the future if they want. [30:52] So we're making that like Web2 accessible so that you don't have to know anything about Web3 as an end user in order to engage with it. [31:01] And that's actually the approach that I prefer in general. Ideal, yeah. Probably comes across very pragmatic. Like I think technology should be a means, not an end. Abstract it away. Yeah. So that's what we're focused on. Totally. Okay. We're going to wrap things up here soon. What keeps you up at night? Or the question could be you wake up in the middle of the night. [31:22] What's the thing that is the stressor that like you're, you're spiraling on? [31:27] I sleep great, y'all. If I have a superpower, actually. Oh, my God. [31:33] I sleep. So my husband, like, I like, I'm not even an eight-hour night person. Like, I prefer nine, and on the weekends, I do ten. I'm still in the pre-baby phase of life, and so, like, I sleep in. So I'm not waking up in the middle of the night. Okay, let me rephrase that.

[31:48] This, the vision you've laid out, beautiful vision. [31:52] It's a big swing. [31:54] Like it's a swing. And... [31:56] There are lots of potential pitfalls all along that journey to work. [32:02] the vision. [32:04] I'm curious which of those... [32:07] like potholes you're most concerned about? So I was telling our team actually just this week, I was like, how do we win? I was like, this is a huge opportunity. There are going to be countless providers who are trying to fill this need. I was like, I think we win by being able to do three things. One, we need a differentiated approach. We're not trying to just replicate web to loyalty programs on a blockchain. We're trying to do something more expansive. And so our approach [32:37] we have to be better, be faster than anyone else. And three, we need more resources than others so that we can go longer and harder than anyone else. And so that's how I think about our formula to win. And I think the thing that keeps me... [32:51] On the resources side, right now, we have raised more money than anyone else that's trying to approach this idea. But it's a dynamic market. Things will change. So I'm really focused on approach and saying like, hey, how can we add on things that others can't replicate or are very hard to replicate or they aren't even thinking about?

[33:21] on brand partnerships that are value additive for the end user as well as the brand. And we're also thinking about whether our own token economic model could come into play later on that adds additional value for brands. And then on the execution side, [33:35] We [33:36] go out and try to hire the absolute best and to create the environment and where they can truly excel and so we're a remote first organization um our coo and general counsel like i always say to him that we want to enable people to collaborate um [33:54] in ways that are really, really impactful as a remote force organization. And so everything that we do is focused on how do we make this the best place to work where people can excel and succeed and run really fast and how do we get the best people on board. So those are the things that keep me up and that I'm always going in between like a differentiated approach and kick-ass execution. [34:13] She's a machine. She's a machine. She can do anything. She can do anything. [34:21] So I think it's where those are the things that I know I need to hit on. So when I feel like on execution, I'm like, we aren't, we aren't going fast enough. Like when do we ship this? Like, Hey, how do we, how do we go faster? What is that? What, what needs to happen for us to go faster or approach? Well, you know what? I just read two other companies that are trying to do the same thing as us. What is different? And so that's the answer is like, it falls into those [34:43] me as if I don't think we're doing that. I feel like I'm inspired by this approach because it's, it's the way that you answered this question is like, yes, there's this thing that I'm stressed out about.

[34:53] And like, [34:54] I'm going to action it into a thing that makes me not stressed out about it. Or that makes me like, it's like inspiring. I'm like, okay. Like all the things. It's a reframing of the problem. It's a reframing of the problem to an opportunity. And that's really powerful. So I don't know. I feel like it's a great note to end on. I'm like totally, we're at Boys Club are so, so behind you and co-create and so excited about what you're building. And we're just so thankful that you would be willing to talk to us about [35:24] first like y'all are the cool kids club I feel like I finally got invited I finally got into the discord it's great um and so I'm so happy to be here so lovely to chat with y'all and thank you for having me [35:35] Thanks for coming. [35:40] Okay, it's time for some draft tweets. [35:44] Is it not? [35:45] Yeah, I'm really proud of you. [35:47] I don't have any draft tweets, but I had a tweet that did numbers. Yeah, that's why I'm proud of you. I feel so great about it because I was just like – [35:56] Every time it happens, I'm like, wow, wow. [35:58] Maybe my people are here. So... [36:01] It is... [36:03] A picture... [36:04] Two pictures of this woman... [36:08] who is so cute, she's the cutest. [36:11] And she's wearing very short skirts. And then she's wearing those huge... [36:15] Red. [36:16] Boots. [36:18] And I'm not even sure who makes those, but they're everywhere on the internet right now. Do you know, do you know who makes them? I, uh, I think it's like mischief. Misfit. Okay. Misfit. Misfit. That brand who like does weird stuff on the internet. I'm not exactly sure what they do.

[36:32] Um... [36:33] So [36:34] But I posted that and then... They're comically large. Comically. Insane. They're so stupid. They're the stupidest pair of shoes you could imagine. And I wrote, ETH Denver Fit Check. And... [36:48] Did really well. Did well. Did really well. So I'm feeling really juiced about it. [36:53] But what I find hilarious about it is like, [36:56] There's no way you look at this and you don't know that it's parody and [37:00] unless you are [37:02] such a bro-seef that you are an idiot. And there are so many dudes replying, thinking that I am seriously going to wear this at each other. I know. I'm seeing the, the, honestly, pure unadulterated joy for me was looking at the people who were commenting. It wasn't so much in the thread, but there was like the dudes who were quote tuning you. Yes. And [37:26] thought you were serious. Yes. It was such, it was like, I can't even explain the feeling. It was like a dopamine, like straight through. It was so good. And- [37:36] I love that, that [37:39] that's a reflection of how stupid they think you are. Yes. And I'm just like, I love it so much. [37:46] It's incredible. It's truly like first class comedy. Thank you very much. I felt good about it. Okay. Any draft tweets from you? [37:53] No, I just have one which is not funny at all, but is... [37:56] uh, [37:57] Something, an experience I had yesterday. The lyric, karma is a cat will put me in an early grave. Do you know that lyric? It's from Taylor Swift song.

[38:06] Oh my gosh. It's terrible. Oh, ew. You know that I am anti-Taylor Swift. It's so – the song Karma. I think it's called Karma. [38:15] Okay. And she has a lyric that's like karma is a cat. And I'm just like, I can't – I just – [38:19] You cannot. I simply cannot. But I also am afraid to say that because I think [38:24] They'll come after us. But you know what? All publicity is good publicity. And on that note, if you like this podcast, please subscribe. And subscribe to our newsletter as well. BoysClub.VIP. Scroll to the bottom. Put your email in there. [38:38] Actually, you know what? I think the call to action is here. It's not subscribe. I mean, it could be subscribe. But I think it's like, leave us a rating. Share it with a friend. No. Leave a rating. If you were to do one thing today, yeah, rate and review this podcast. If you do one thing today, rate and review this podcast. [38:56] Can you imagine someone saying the one thing I did today was rating and reviewing the Boys Club podcast? [39:01] okay bye